Curse

Kai Nui · Dec 01, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Ok, I haven't had much of a complaint since my final straw on secondaries and attribute refund points. But unless the update coming up is similar to what I'm suggesting, I'd expect this to be in eventually.

Problems
Razah is a 50K faction ritualist. Not only are ritualists not in Nightfall, for a character that's 50K faction, he should have something super distinguishing, otherwise it seems like a pointless limitation of PVP players from using him. This is still subject to change anyway so I might change this later. Also, we should have another mesmer hero... anyway...

Armor is suposedly the problem with Razah, and it's also a problem with me. The whole insignia and runes were an issue with making Razah able to change his primary profession. Well here's where I get to my suggestion:

Make Tyrian and Canthan armors insignia
Let us stack on multiple pieces of insignia and runes onto the character or armor.

Now this is where I really explain my true suggestion. There are several ways to do so, and here's how I propose it be done:

Make armor have a piece that can be salvaged without having a chance of being destroyed, but still make the armor materials have chances to be salvaged. On this piece that can't be destroyed is every rune or insignia you've ever put on that part of armor. It simply works by having a little scroll down tab on every piece of armor that looks like the button to display your head piece or cape. On the scroll down panel displays every type of insignia or rune you've ever put on the armor, changing the piece temporarily to meet your build.

I don't think I can explain it any easier than that. Instead of having one piece of armor having only one rune and one insignia, your armor can have multiple runes and insignias, but only display one rune and insignia at a time.

Not only does this make it possible for Razah to be able to change his (its?) primary profession, but it allows for players not to waste money on buying runes multiple times just to change their builds. It's almost exactly like the attribute refund issue, where you were stuck with a build because you couldn't change your attributes around. The case here is, people aren't willing to fork out the money to buy insignias or runes that cost so much if they're probably going to just overwrite them with something else they're more comfortable with later. Some runes and insignias are expensive, and making whole other armor sets to just have the basic freedom to play the game is not in the ideals of the game. (nor is lightbringer or sunspear... but that's off topic.)

Make weapons have the same ability and I think you've got yourselves a winner. You not only save much armor space, but you make it convenient and pleasurable to play a GAME. Afterall, when I get home from a tough day, I don't intend to come on and farm lightbringer points and scrape up the cash and materials to buy other armors to test insignias and runes on with builds just to scrap later. A good example is the Artificer's Insignia which gives you +3 armor for each equipped signet. Although it may not be a lot of money at the trader, do I really need to buy a set of Elonian armor since my Tyrian armor doesn't have the ability to swap insignias? And then after buying the armor putting on runes? Seems to me like a waste of funds and resources to me. One last thing is, we're expected to supply our heroes with weapons and runes, but we don't even get their % of money to help pay for their runes and what not?

dargon · Dec 01, 2006, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Just like to point out, that the enormous cost is only temporary, Gaile has stated that Razah's cost tomorrow will be 6k

Racthoh · Dec 01, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Yes to multiple insignias that you can change on the fly. At least with heroes there is a 100% chance that you'll get the rune or insignia without destroying the armour, instead of forking out hundreds of platinum for superior vigors for every hero. Compared to the cost of one salvage kit use that is.

Kai Nui · Dec 02, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

Just like to point out, that the enormous cost is only temporary, Gaile has stated that Razah's cost tomorrow will be 6k

Yes, but Razah wasn't intended to be a Ritualist, but instead a character that could change his primary profession. In the manual it strongly hinted at this, and now seeing that this is not true is a MASSIVE let down to myself and no doubt many players. I'm trying to suggest a fix to the solution, because this was one of the few threads holding me to buying this expansion. If Anet thinks they're seriously letting this slip through as just a ritualist in a campaign in which you can't even make one, then it's even more ridiculous on so many levels.

I just can't settle for this, it's one of the greatest let-downs in Guild Wars, and if I didn't value life so much I'd probably strap bombs onto myself and nuke 'em.

I'd like to note, I do appreciate Racthoh's title: Fun > Loot. That's all I want, and it seems like some how, people enjoy not being able to play around and experiment with the game. Maybe most people enjoy looking up builds, copying them and doing stuff that everyone else has done, but not me. Worthless limitations seem to be things people appreciate, and although I do agree some things are needed, I do find that destroying runes, insignias, or inscriptions to test or try something new, we're penalized. Why is it that PVE characters can't have access to all skills after ascension or beating the game? Why does lightbringer go up so high? I don't know, but I can't help but get a nasty feeling in my gut because I originally bought this game because I believed it was... Do I really have to preach this crap if no one agrees, I think I give up and I'm wasting my time. Epiphanies suck.

LifeInfusion · Dec 02, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

I just can't settle for this, it's one of the greatest let-downs in Guild Wars, and if I didn't value life so much I'd probably strap bombs onto myself and nuke 'em

I think you take games too seriously. If you said that to ANY other game company they'd spit in your face.

Arenanet listens to players, but there's only so much they can do. The devs probably thought they could make the variable profession thing in time but they didn't. That's their fault for underestimating their own code's bindings, since the skills and attributes panel would need revamping. However, unless you can do a better job than they can, I wouldn't speak so rashly.

What about all the other things that came with Nightfall? Do you really mean to tell me that Razah was the reason that you bought the chapter? Because if it is the reason you bought Nightfall that is utter BS! Razah wasn't the main touted feature before they released, heroes were, and if you notice in the hero cinematic he's not in there.

Kai Nui · Dec 02, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

I'd be willing to admit I went maybe a bit far there, but that's only because when talking through the internet, connotations and emotions can be perceived differently by the author than by the reader. I meant it in a sarcastic way, simply because it's one of the biggest things I've been looking forward to, and one of the few things I found worthwhile in Nightfall.

Do I take Guild Wars too seriously? Maybe I do, maybe I don't. I've already invested around $150.00 into this game, and I play it often, and I have had this as my major time killer for afternoons for over a year now. I don't feel like throwing away time put into this game for another game, simply because I'm not as young as I used to be when I could play through games and go onto the next one. If I was to quit Guild Wars I don't think I'd be a gamer any more, I'd just be a regular guy. The old guild wars is lost, but some of it is still around, and all I want is to try to hold onto it for as long as I can. Maybe another expansion or two more, I don't know.

Razah wasn't the reason I bought NF, nor do I claim it to be. I made a risk to buy this game since in my oppinion I found Factions to be one of the worst games I played, but "Prophecies" to be one of the better. NF does have some good qualities, and it also has a lot of bad, Razah, Missions with actual bonuses, and better explorable areas such as the Desolation and Realm of Torment are about all that held me on. I simply want a game that's fun, challenging, and occassionally takes up a large chunk of time. Without that, I'm not playing a game.

Any further personal attacks can be directed to me in PM.

MithranArkanere · Dec 02, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

You should not use bomb, they harm people.
I use voodoo magic, that only hurts the ones you want.

Well... they say 'variable' not 'unknnown'.
They made it a reward of an elite mission, and no on of you can say it is as easy to get like Morghan or Norgu.

Armor is not a real problem, but razah is just a normal profession that an average player can get.

It's like adding a professiong so only r9 or r12 could make characters of tha type.

There is something that Anet must remember:
We all bought the games, not only the most experienced players, not only the ones that play more, not only the ones that brag things are easy and boring for them.

Kai Nui · Dec 02, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

You should not use bomb, they harm people.
I use voodoo magic, that only hurts the ones you want.

Read above post, or I'll make sure ignorance isn't bliss.

Well... they say 'variable' not 'unknnown'.
They made it a reward of an elite mission, and no on of you can say it is as easy to get like Morghan or Norgu.

Ok, so they say it's 'variable' not 'unknown' so I think I'm following you up to there, maybe not. I believe Gaile said that Razah was intended to be able to change his primary aswell as his secondary profession, but were unable to due to rune/insignia problems. Which is why I made my suggestion in the first place. Other than that I don't quite know what you're trying to say.

Armor is not a real problem, but razah is just a normal profession that an average player can get.

So armor isn't a problem BUT razah is a normal profession everyone can get? I don't know what to think here. You are aware Razah was intended to be a hero that could change his primary profession... Just FYI... Eggs are a decent food to devour, but magazines are good to read...

It's like adding a professiong so only r9 or r12 could make characters of tha type.

Thanks, old news, he's down to 6K, so this is false.

There is something that Anet must remember:
We all bought the games, not only the most experienced players, not only the ones that play more, not only the ones that brag things are easy and boring for them.

Are you trying to stay on topic?

My stuff is in the quote above, and sorry if I feel a bit fed up, that's probably because I am.

Also, just FYI: Here's a quick summary of what I'm suggesting again, since people are getting lost:

Make armor store every rune and insignia like titles, but you can only display one at a time. This way you don't have to destroy runes and insignias to try different builds.

Antheus · Dec 02, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Make armor store every rune and insignia like titles, but you can only display one at a time. This way you don't have to destroy runes and insignias to try different builds.

That's what PvP characters and random arena are for.

In PvE, you need to buy things. That by itself is the key difference between the two. Without it, might as well just left PvP characters run around.

This is one thing, that cannot change.

Once such options do become available, GW will be a very different game. Perhaps a sequel, or a different name altogether, but in current game, this can't happen.

Kai Nui · Dec 03, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

That's what PvP characters and random arena are for.

Why...?

In PvE, you need to buy things. That by itself is the key difference between the two. Without it, might as well just left PvP characters run around.

I didn't say you didn't buy or obtain the runes in the first place. I said nothing about free rides. All I'm saying is the armor can store runes that you put into it.

This is one thing, that cannot change.

Again, why? I'm not sure I understand your logic one bit.

Once such options do become available, GW will be a very different game. Perhaps a sequel, or a different name altogether, but in current game, this can't happen.

Oh SNAP! Next thing people will think it's too helpful or convenient to swap your secondary without mapping or change one attribute around without gaining 250XP first.

Anyone else willing to go in-depth and explain the logic behind my suggestion not working...?

Sientir · Dec 03, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

That's what PvP characters and random arena are for.

In PvE, you need to buy things. That by itself is the key difference between the two. Without it, might as well just left PvP characters run around.

This is one thing, that cannot change.

Once such options do become available, GW will be a very different game. Perhaps a sequel, or a different name altogether, but in current game, this can't happen.

My impression is that he wants you to be able to "apply" the insignia, rune, etc. to a list on each piece of armor. You'd still have to buy it, but instead of replacing the previous rune/insignia, the new one would just get added to a list.

The versatility that that would provide would be nice. Even more importantly, being able to save a large part of the inventory area would be nice as well.

Kai Nui · Dec 03, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Thanks, that's exactly what I mean. It's not doing anything unfairly, you're still paying for it, but as a result you get:

More space if you wasted it on armor
You don't lose money that you paid for runes
Razah can become a variable hero

I'm sure that there are other pros, such as making weapons have the same ability or not, but in addition they should definitely make old canthan and tyrian armors insignia-able aswell.

Curse You · Dec 03, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

I'm amazed at how many people can't seem to understand what Kai Nui is suggesting.

Mr.Pickle · Feb 23, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

the series is getting better each chapter and i have complaint with updating armor to previous chapters. prophecies was like the training wheels of this developing series and adding insignias would defeat that concept of adding more complexity and challenge with each chapter. i do think your concept of storing runes/insignia would be great for hero's since they do take a portion of drops...but aside from hero's no way. any character can make atleast 5k in one recreational evening playing and obviously more if your more dedicated.

to Razah i didn't loose any sleep over this. the game was byfar a homerun and seemed as though they learned alot since Factions. the Razah concept was a woulda coulda that more than likely would have altered alot for as of yet a small character with a unique background.

if there was a gripe i would have thought you would have mentioned the lack of engame primevil armor for Faction classes. i haven't read the reasoning to this one but hey i'm sure nxt chapter will make that up. anyways old post so doesn't really matter

Knightsaber Sith · Feb 23, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

^rits and sins got ancient and vabbi armor; be thankful they got anything at all instead of whining they didn't get more >_<

GloryFox · Feb 23, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Just reading this makes me feel like Im in a time loop.

Antheus · Feb 23, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Yea, 50k faction for Razah is really ruining the game.

Then again, necros seem to be doing fine...

Faer · Feb 23, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Razah is no longer 50k Faction (hasn't been for a while), and all the other stuff discussed in this thread has been discussed elsewhere. Therefore, for the love of all things logical and organized...

Closed.